Official Luthiers Forum!

I've done my best to stay out of this thread for the reasons Hesh mentioned. I'm just wondering why a phone call to the vendor wouldn't just handle this. Either they will make it right or they won't. Either way it's a matter that is between the buyer and the seller. If there end up being hard feelings this forum (as the rules state) is not really a great place for them. If people disagree, I suggest they take up trying to change the rules, not override them. Just my two cents.

Can you point me to exactly where it is in this thread a vendor is being personally attacked Randolph?? Thought not because it just has not happened and therefore no rules have been broken. If you took the time to read the topic title and the content of those who have posted so far you would see that all have been quite careful to not drag this topic down to the level to which your assumption suggests. This thread remains quite clearly directed at the question of the validity of a tonewood supplier charging a restock fee and that is all. It is a generalisation and focuses clearly on business 'policy' not a specific business.

To which I will add, to my mind because the policy may be there in the fine print only qualifies such a charge as legal, it does not qualify it as fair or reasonable. I 'can' understand having such a policy in place so "it's in the fine print" can be used upon a habitual pest who have been using a vendors good will and service to cherry pick products. However generally, on a product as subjective as tonewood, I think it unreasonable for it to be applied as a blanket policy to all customers and quite frankly, despite what has been suggested in this thread, I struggle to see how having to place a set of wood back on the shelf for the next guy because it has been returned could incur cost of any real significant to a vendor. At a set by set retail level this should simply be 'all part of the service sir' and if that set of wood somehow keeps managing to find it's way back on the shelf, well the vendor may need to look at how he is grading his stock and no one charged him for that lesson because it's all part of the service.

Cheers

Kim

In the end, any vendor can set a re-stocking fee as he so pleases. As customers, we have every right to support the business despite the policy or not. As forum members we also have the right to debate the soundness of such policies. As Kim so eloquently stated, this has been an intelligent discourse and it never got personal.

In the end, vendors should be grateful that customers discuss those issues that they consider onerous...it can go a long way to devise policies that can meet or exceed expectations. Long live the free market!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

A few months ago I bought a Les Paul top from one of our sponsors (one of their nicer, pricer tops) sight unseen. I was expecting something pretty spectacular based on their reputation and got something with significantly underwhelming figure. I had emailed pictures of what I was looking for and had their verbal assurance that the top was pretty close. When it still looked like plain, unfigured maple under naptha, I called them and they took it back willingly and without restocking fees. In the end I was out two weeks and postage, but here I am none the worse. No harm, no foul. The second top I received was spectacular. It wasn't from an OLF sponsor, but it was from an OLF recommendation.

Like Michael Greenfield says about buying from a new vendor ..

...pick out your 100 best tops ..

... and then send me the 20 you dont think I will return.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thanks Tony, at least with a proven class acts like Shane of High Mountain we don't need to be quite so selective with our tops. Fact is that I have always done well with the OLF sponsors such as Steve Roberson of Colonial, BobC of RC, and as mentioned Shane, so I don't have issue recommending these guys to anyone because good service is always backed by a genuine concern the customer is happy with their order, and that is just the way it should be.

Cheers

Kim

I have to dis-agree Filippo.
Being able to get materials we can count on and the service that goes with it has everything to do with guitar building. And I've found this thread educational. Nice to hear that so many of the builders I respect have nothing but good to say about almost all of our sponsors.

We need to know who we can count on,
Joe

Joe

I agree. If a vendor charges restock fee then that is just the way it is. It should be public knowledge. Trying to 'protect' the vendor by not talking about it is nonsense.

Some people don't have a problem dealing with such a vendor and some do, and that's OK. Everyone deserves to know up front either by reading the fine print or hearing it here.

By the way Joe, good name.

Joe

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Filippo,

I not sure where this miscellaneous forum is. I looked but can't find it. Could you post a link? I'd like to take a look around.
It might be better suited.

Thanks
Joe Beaver

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

It's "Off Topic Discussions " and it could be argued whether it's off topic or not but what does it matter? It's getting good healthy discussion right here.

I'm sure Jon would just as soon not to have posted this little topic. It's basically a tempest in a teapot. After doing the math, the fifteen days he had this maple drop top out of inventory cost the vendor 10 cents at today's interest rate.

Basically the vendor didn't want to take the product back after the ten day full refund window. The site didn't state what the policy was after ten days. Jon found out and that was the beef, he was going to lose not just the shipping but some of the cost of the item for building his guitar.

Fifteen percent of a $100 drop top is fifteen bucks. Fifteen percent of $125 is $18.75. So this thread was about being penalized for exceeding the artificial ten day limit. Just not good business practice, exhibits self-centeredness of the seller and lack of concern about the buyer.

My guess is the positive aspects of this thread is we'll all pay better attention, and look for the return policies of vendors with which we've never done business. My other guess is that Jon won't be ordering again from this vendor. The vendor will survive after all he made $15 and who knows he may be re-writing that policy as we speak?

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

How do you know what he paid for a top? In all fairness to the vendor maybe it was a $55 top and the shipping was $20 to return it and then the restocking fee. So maybe Jon was only getting $20 credit for the return and the vendor said you would be better off just using it down the line and buying something else. Who knows maybe he was correct? I didn't see where he said he wouldn't take it back. Just that there was a restock fee. Oh well, live and learn. But the lesson here is like you said, know the return policy before ordering and even more important, call and talk to them before buying wood if you have any questions. I bought a piece of snakewood and I called to make sure how it looked because you can't see if the board is twisted by the photo or whether there is any checking etc. The vender was more then happy to tell me the condition of the wood and you can discuss any return issues with them too. Write it off as a lesson learned. I wouldn't get to bent out of shape and loose sleep over $8-$15 restocking fee.

If anyone has nicely figured maple LP tops for less than $140, count me in for 100! It's safe to assume the ballpark price on this one, Chris. They're pretty pricey.

He didn't say it was a nicely figured top though just that it was a maple top. Either way the lesson is still the same. Either eat the restocking fee and return postage and get another or refund or keep it. Put it on the classifieds and see if you can sale it if you don't want it. I understand the need to vent but chaulk it up to a learning experience. He said it was nice but not what he had in mind. Like I said call first if it's a pricy wood for you . How do you think I learned that lesson? The hard way too.

I know I supposedly signed off this thread, but I feel obligated to share the vendor's response to my questioning of the restocking fee-


"I'm sorry if there is some confusion on our return policy. It is clearly stated on our website at the bottom of each page under "Your Guarantee" as follows:

"If any products we sell are not as represented, or arrive damaged, please notify us within 10 days of receipt for a full refund or exchange"

The set you have was pictured, not misrepresented in any way. You apparently had a change of mind.

We do not offer an exchange policy for any other reasons than those published. I did agree to allow you an exchange, but Jon, there are expenses involved from our side to do this. Returned items must be received, opened, inspected, reentered physically into inventory, tech must reenter into the store base, and accounting records must be changed to reflect all of that. It all takes time, and I doubt the $17 restock fee will even pay for this task.

I will honor the return/exchange as I previously offered you for another 5 days. Please advise.."

Well now I suppose that I am lucky to even be able to return the stuff. Go figure!!!

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Not that I want to stir this pot further... but I thought I would weigh in on policy.

As long as we are not "outing" who the vendor is, and trying to use the forum as a club to beat a vendor into compliance I see no problem with a discussion about restocking fees. However, that said, we are getting dangerously close to doing this by posting verbage from their web site.

Lance and I would prefer that we keep personal quarrals personal.

Trust me, I understand your frustration with the restock / return policy, I am sure that was an ugly surprise, but I have also learned to see the forest for the trees with respect to tonewood dealers. If the tonewood dealer supplies great stuff on balance it is better to sometimes pay the restocking fees or keep it. Particularly in tops. Finding dealers you can trust and who continually supply great wood is worth far more than an occassional misfire. IMO.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

My personal opinion:

Given your experience, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever to order from this vendor in the future.

The seller is trying to run a business. And I personally find the prices for his products to be very reasonable. Of course he could change his return policy to "return whatever, whenever, however you like - no questions asked". But then he would probably raise prices to reflect those hidden costs. So I personally am happy to see him standing up to his 10-day return policy, and keeping the price for his products lower. You may think differently of course...

All this over $17. You are lucky that he's willing to exchange it because it was stated there and he is trying to work with you. At least that's how I read the message.

I'm going to have to agree with Chris. The chap is trying to work it out. The site does have nice wood for the $$$ so they are probably working on a low margin. I'd give them a break, take the offer or not but otherwise let it go.

Just my two cents.

joe

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I don't like the restocking fee, but the thread did lead me to finding the vendor, which in turn led me to a set I'm going to order tomorrow when we get back from vacation.

Bingo! And im sure you will love it James! Every thing I have ever gotten from them has been topnotch stuff!

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Me too. But I didn't order anything just yet and will call or email any questions I have first. I always like to talk to the people before buying certain things especially if it's costly.

Just remember, if you don't like what you get, too bad..........

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia